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	<title>Comments on: Good Cop, Bad Cop - Analyzing The Copenhagen Accord</title>
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	<link>http://greenleapforward.com/2009/12/21/good-cop-bad-cop-analyzing-the-copenhagen-accord/</link>
	<description>Tracking the emerging technological, commercial, political and social revolution that is greening China's red-hot economy.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:14:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: pdm</title>
		<link>http://greenleapforward.com/2009/12/21/good-cop-bad-cop-analyzing-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-35724</link>
		<dc:creator>pdm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 15:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenleapforward.com/?p=250#comment-35724</guid>
		<description>You say: "The United States, for its part, will pay its fair share of these global figures, including at least $1 billion over the next three years for forest conservation, and another $350 million on four specific technology assistance initiatives"

Are you serious when you say that the US pay a FAIR share? Over the 2010-2012 period the European Union contribute with $10,6 bn and Japan with $11 bn while the US with a mere $3,6bn. US contribution is about 1/3 of EU's one and even less than Japanese one and you call it a "fair share"?


FYI: http://www.grist.org/article/2009-12-20-a-preliminary-assessment-of-the-copenhagen-accord/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You say: &#8220;The United States, for its part, will pay its fair share of these global figures, including at least $1 billion over the next three years for forest conservation, and another $350 million on four specific technology assistance initiatives&#8221;</p>
<p>Are you serious when you say that the US pay a FAIR share? Over the 2010-2012 period the European Union contribute with $10,6 bn and Japan with $11 bn while the US with a mere $3,6bn. US contribution is about 1/3 of EU&#8217;s one and even less than Japanese one and you call it a &#8220;fair share&#8221;?</p>
<p>FYI: <a href="http://www.grist.org/article/2009-12-20-a-preliminary-assessment-of-the-copenhagen-accord/" rel="nofollow">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-12-20-a-preliminary-assessment-of-the-copenhagen-accord/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://greenleapforward.com/2009/12/21/good-cop-bad-cop-analyzing-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-32834</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 00:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenleapforward.com/?p=250#comment-32834</guid>
		<description>Thanks everyone for your comments and sorry for the delayed response.  I'll try to address a bunch at one go here:

@Madam Miaow:  the pleasure was mine.  Sinophobia, I think is a convenient means to defend the status quo, not just in Britain, but certainly in the U.S. as well.  The way to cut through this is to bring the best quality information to light, which is what bloggers like you and me try to do. Good luck for the new year!

@Patrick Lynch:  Thanks as always for your thoughtful comments. I don't think the US was successful in selling the 17% below 2005 levels as you say; indeed a lot of parties certainly called out the US on this.  However, I think we also need to consider what the emissions reductions picture looks like after 2020, i.e. 2025, 2030, 2050.  Under the U.S. plan, it does achieve 80% reductions by 2050 from 1990 levels.  Here too a more reflections on Obama's actions over the past year: http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/12/climate_action.html  Excellent point about the true meaning of per capita, though. As much as bottom-up measures like business solutions and individual volunteerism can help, a top-down reorg of our institutions is instrumental.

@Calvin Quek:  I can understand the frustration and disappointment of many following the conclusion of COP15.  It is very clear that we are far off the mark at this stage.  Yet, one thing we can say is that talks did not collapse, which was not so clear in the final 24 or 12 hours of the summit.  That we now have a path forward, though not perfect, should keep climate warriors living to fight another day!  

@Elizabeth:  Very incendiary and I've largely tried to stay out of this bickering.  The most balanced analysis I've seen on this comes from journalist Jonathan Watts, which you've probably seen by now: http://www.danwei.org/foreign_media_on_china/danwei_interviews_jonathan_wat.php  
I don't agree with everything Jonathan usually writes, but I think he is spot on on this one.

Happy New Year everyone!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks everyone for your comments and sorry for the delayed response.  I&#8217;ll try to address a bunch at one go here:</p>
<p>@Madam Miaow:  the pleasure was mine.  Sinophobia, I think is a convenient means to defend the status quo, not just in Britain, but certainly in the U.S. as well.  The way to cut through this is to bring the best quality information to light, which is what bloggers like you and me try to do. Good luck for the new year!</p>
<p>@Patrick Lynch:  Thanks as always for your thoughtful comments. I don&#8217;t think the US was successful in selling the 17% below 2005 levels as you say; indeed a lot of parties certainly called out the US on this.  However, I think we also need to consider what the emissions reductions picture looks like after 2020, i.e. 2025, 2030, 2050.  Under the U.S. plan, it does achieve 80% reductions by 2050 from 1990 levels.  Here too a more reflections on Obama&#8217;s actions over the past year: <a href="http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/12/climate_action.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/12/climate_action.html</a>  Excellent point about the true meaning of per capita, though. As much as bottom-up measures like business solutions and individual volunteerism can help, a top-down reorg of our institutions is instrumental.</p>
<p>@Calvin Quek:  I can understand the frustration and disappointment of many following the conclusion of COP15.  It is very clear that we are far off the mark at this stage.  Yet, one thing we can say is that talks did not collapse, which was not so clear in the final 24 or 12 hours of the summit.  That we now have a path forward, though not perfect, should keep climate warriors living to fight another day!  </p>
<p>@Elizabeth:  Very incendiary and I&#8217;ve largely tried to stay out of this bickering.  The most balanced analysis I&#8217;ve seen on this comes from journalist Jonathan Watts, which you&#8217;ve probably seen by now: <a href="http://www.danwei.org/foreign_media_on_china/danwei_interviews_jonathan_wat.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.danwei.org/foreign_media_on_china/danwei_interviews_jonathan_wat.php</a><br />
I don&#8217;t agree with everything Jonathan usually writes, but I think he is spot on on this one.</p>
<p>Happy New Year everyone!</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://greenleapforward.com/2009/12/21/good-cop-bad-cop-analyzing-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-31369</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 05:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenleapforward.com/?p=250#comment-31369</guid>
		<description>Hi Julian,
What do you think of the following that appeared in the Guardian...and James Fallow's analysis?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/22/copenhagen-climate-change-mark-lynas
http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/12/significant_if_true_follow_up.php

Your thoughts appreciated.

EJW</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Julian,<br />
What do you think of the following that appeared in the Guardian&#8230;and James Fallow&#8217;s analysis?<br />
<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/22/copenhagen-climate-change-mark-lynas" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/22/copenhagen-climate-change-mark-lynas</a><br />
<a href="http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/12/significant_if_true_follow_up.php" rel="nofollow">http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/12/significant_if_true_follow_up.php</a></p>
<p>Your thoughts appreciated.</p>
<p>EJW</p>
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		<title>By: The Green Leap Forward 绿跃进 &#187; How Did China Fare in Copenhagen? A Critical Analysis by Someone Not in the Room</title>
		<link>http://greenleapforward.com/2009/12/21/good-cop-bad-cop-analyzing-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-31331</link>
		<dc:creator>The Green Leap Forward 绿跃进 &#187; How Did China Fare in Copenhagen? A Critical Analysis by Someone Not in the Room</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 20:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenleapforward.com/?p=250#comment-31331</guid>
		<description>[...] The Green Leap Forward 绿跃进   &#160;        &#171; Good Cop, Bad Cop - Analyzing The Copenhagen Accord [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Green Leap Forward 绿跃进   &nbsp;        &laquo; Good Cop, Bad Cop - Analyzing The Copenhagen Accord [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Calvin Quek</title>
		<link>http://greenleapforward.com/2009/12/21/good-cop-bad-cop-analyzing-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-31219</link>
		<dc:creator>Calvin Quek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenleapforward.com/?p=250#comment-31219</guid>
		<description>Thanks Julian for your insights. I am going to disagree with you on this one. It's hard for anyone to digest of all the intricacies of international negotiations, let alone the understand the extraordinary complexity of negotiating a global climate deal. I wasn't in Copenhagen and I can only rely on what i read to get a sense of where. I do not claim to be an expert on these things, but my hunch is that the vast majority of people feel let down by the Copenhagen result. Critically, the uncertainty of this agreement leaves many businesses in limbo about their future investment plans, contributions from the private sector that were key toward kick starting the green bubble that we need. When the conference started, I was a cautious optimist. I am now hopeful pessimist. I have less faith in the UN's ability to forge a common consensus to deal with climate change. Instead, I think private sector, and regional and state initiatives are likely to lead the way, but these will be limited to the enlightened forward looking types. This may be the plan B that we need in light of the failure of Copenhagen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Julian for your insights. I am going to disagree with you on this one. It&#8217;s hard for anyone to digest of all the intricacies of international negotiations, let alone the understand the extraordinary complexity of negotiating a global climate deal. I wasn&#8217;t in Copenhagen and I can only rely on what i read to get a sense of where. I do not claim to be an expert on these things, but my hunch is that the vast majority of people feel let down by the Copenhagen result. Critically, the uncertainty of this agreement leaves many businesses in limbo about their future investment plans, contributions from the private sector that were key toward kick starting the green bubble that we need. When the conference started, I was a cautious optimist. I am now hopeful pessimist. I have less faith in the UN&#8217;s ability to forge a common consensus to deal with climate change. Instead, I think private sector, and regional and state initiatives are likely to lead the way, but these will be limited to the enlightened forward looking types. This may be the plan B that we need in light of the failure of Copenhagen.</p>
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		<title>By: alice</title>
		<link>http://greenleapforward.com/2009/12/21/good-cop-bad-cop-analyzing-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-31208</link>
		<dc:creator>alice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenleapforward.com/?p=250#comment-31208</guid>
		<description>It's clear that there is alot more to be done but I'm a little sick of the sinophobia.
Take Britain for example,  I don't think that the country has even fulfilled its Kyoto requirments. Secondly, it's not like much has been done in Britain to build alternative sources of energy. If David Milliband is going to play the blame game, I think alot of fingers can be pointed the U.K's way as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s clear that there is alot more to be done but I&#8217;m a little sick of the sinophobia.<br />
Take Britain for example,  I don&#8217;t think that the country has even fulfilled its Kyoto requirments. Secondly, it&#8217;s not like much has been done in Britain to build alternative sources of energy. If David Milliband is going to play the blame game, I think alot of fingers can be pointed the U.K&#8217;s way as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Lynch</title>
		<link>http://greenleapforward.com/2009/12/21/good-cop-bad-cop-analyzing-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-31133</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Lynch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:07:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenleapforward.com/?p=250#comment-31133</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the analysis Julian.  One of the problems with Copenhagen was that so many people declared that meeting, that date as the last and only chance to do what needed to be done. The struggle of course, continues.

      I would like to add one more bad to the list.  The United States clearly lags in what it intends to do.  The US promises (3-4% from a 1990 base) were never sufficient, and clearly the US needs to do a lot more.  It was successful for the most part in selling the misleading 17% number and shifting attention to China and India (for obvious reasons, China makes a better villain/scapegoat in the US).  No matter what other countries do, the US has to do much more.  Whether it can happen remains to be seen.

    Another part of this story is the failure of media to deal with the idea of total emissions versus per capita emissions.  Per capita is the only fair measurement.  Until we consistently use per capita comparisons, we will get no where.  The large population countries cannot and never will accept total emission agreements.  To do so would be suicide for their governments.  Won't happen.

    The media also at some point needs to get more sophisticated in its analysis of what per capita means.  It needs to be clear that this does not mean individual changes and sacrifices necessarily, but often means institutional changes.  (Pentagon anyone?)

    The other worrisome thing is the tendency in the US to tie global warming measures in with trade and energy sourcing issues.  Both of these can become distractions that distort what is likely to be a difficult enough struggle against the energy industry in the US and the flat earthers.

    Obama needs to call some of the corporate leaders who are opposing progress to Washington and ask them if they really want the US government to become their enemies.  Remove all of their tax breaks, audit their overseas operations for corruption and bribes, make permits more transparent and difficult.  He can make them come around if he chooses.

    Thanks again for the analysis.  I feel that the best thing out of Copenhagen may be the realization of just how difficult this is going to be, and a clearer sense (after the whining dies down) that any solutions that are not "win-win" will fail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the analysis Julian.  One of the problems with Copenhagen was that so many people declared that meeting, that date as the last and only chance to do what needed to be done. The struggle of course, continues.</p>
<p>      I would like to add one more bad to the list.  The United States clearly lags in what it intends to do.  The US promises (3-4% from a 1990 base) were never sufficient, and clearly the US needs to do a lot more.  It was successful for the most part in selling the misleading 17% number and shifting attention to China and India (for obvious reasons, China makes a better villain/scapegoat in the US).  No matter what other countries do, the US has to do much more.  Whether it can happen remains to be seen.</p>
<p>    Another part of this story is the failure of media to deal with the idea of total emissions versus per capita emissions.  Per capita is the only fair measurement.  Until we consistently use per capita comparisons, we will get no where.  The large population countries cannot and never will accept total emission agreements.  To do so would be suicide for their governments.  Won&#8217;t happen.</p>
<p>    The media also at some point needs to get more sophisticated in its analysis of what per capita means.  It needs to be clear that this does not mean individual changes and sacrifices necessarily, but often means institutional changes.  (Pentagon anyone?)</p>
<p>    The other worrisome thing is the tendency in the US to tie global warming measures in with trade and energy sourcing issues.  Both of these can become distractions that distort what is likely to be a difficult enough struggle against the energy industry in the US and the flat earthers.</p>
<p>    Obama needs to call some of the corporate leaders who are opposing progress to Washington and ask them if they really want the US government to become their enemies.  Remove all of their tax breaks, audit their overseas operations for corruption and bribes, make permits more transparent and difficult.  He can make them come around if he chooses.</p>
<p>    Thanks again for the analysis.  I feel that the best thing out of Copenhagen may be the realization of just how difficult this is going to be, and a clearer sense (after the whining dies down) that any solutions that are not &#8220;win-win&#8221; will fail.</p>
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		<title>By: Greenhoof &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Copenhagen: a look back at the most striking narratives</title>
		<link>http://greenleapforward.com/2009/12/21/good-cop-bad-cop-analyzing-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-31115</link>
		<dc:creator>Greenhoof &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Copenhagen: a look back at the most striking narratives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenleapforward.com/?p=250#comment-31115</guid>
		<description>[...] John Vidal and Jonathan Watts. For more analysis, see  Andrew Light, Michael Levi, Jeremy Symons, Julian Wong, Jake Schmidt, and Noah [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] John Vidal and Jonathan Watts. For more analysis, see  Andrew Light, Michael Levi, Jeremy Symons, Julian Wong, Jake Schmidt, and Noah [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Madam Miaow</title>
		<link>http://greenleapforward.com/2009/12/21/good-cop-bad-cop-analyzing-the-copenhagen-accord/#comment-31103</link>
		<dc:creator>Madam Miaow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenleapforward.com/?p=250#comment-31103</guid>
		<description>Very useful, Julian. Thank you very much.

I enjoyed hearing what you had to say when we were on the BBC this week. I'm alarmed by the Sinophobia of our British press, though, and the hysterical attempts to blame China like some pantomime villain. Those old colonialist attitudes never go away.
http://madammiaow.blogspot.com/2009/12/is-new-independent-newspaper-regime.html

Looking forward to your analysis of China's role. Whatever your criticisms of China, I'm confident you won't be adopting the same tone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very useful, Julian. Thank you very much.</p>
<p>I enjoyed hearing what you had to say when we were on the BBC this week. I&#8217;m alarmed by the Sinophobia of our British press, though, and the hysterical attempts to blame China like some pantomime villain. Those old colonialist attitudes never go away.<br />
<a href="http://madammiaow.blogspot.com/2009/12/is-new-independent-newspaper-regime.html" rel="nofollow">http://madammiaow.blogspot.com/2009/12/is-new-independent-newspaper-regime.html</a></p>
<p>Looking forward to your analysis of China&#8217;s role. Whatever your criticisms of China, I&#8217;m confident you won&#8217;t be adopting the same tone.</p>
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